tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post9208040363523881797..comments2024-03-18T19:05:39.072-07:00Comments on Morphosis: Atheism as MonotheismAdam Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15803399373213872690noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-80714427001757047892019-05-15T02:18:35.183-07:002019-05-15T02:18:35.183-07:00The thing that really strikes me about the Bacchyl...The thing that really strikes me about the Bacchylides poem is that disbelief in the gods is something forced on you <em>by the gods</em>. That's got a lovely Kierkegaardian twisted irony to it, I think. Otherwise, I agree with you: there's lots of evidence from Greek philosophy and culture that you were 'allowed' (as it were) to be as skeptical as you liked about lots of things: was the sun a stone, are there atoms, do oracles work etc, but not allowed to make arguments perceived as disruptive of political order. Then it's the hemlock for you, Soccy my friend, no matter how much you insist that you believe in the divine. 'Atheist' was more like radical anarchist, in both a political but (as you say) also in an as it were realist sense, like insisting that we can breathe water or something. Those religious rituals are there for a reason.Adam Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15803399373213872690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-60981815208898978722019-05-15T01:56:41.426-07:002019-05-15T01:56:41.426-07:00It's easy to read the Diagoras story and think...It's easy to read the Diagoras story and think "go Diagoras" - his mindset sounds very much like what we now think of as atheism, or scepticism if we want to work around the A-word. The Bacchylides citation suggests that this might be a mistake; in that story not believing in the gods entails an awful lot more than a simple(?) straightforward(?) sceptical materialism. Perhaps 'scepticism' is the way in; perhaps not believing in 'the gods', for the Greeks, was something like going all the way with Humean scepticism, i.e. genuinely not believing that there was any predictable regularity at all to the world. Which would tend to land you in an existential crisis even now. (Sartre talks about this at some length in <i>La Nausée</i> - from memory, "nature doesn't have laws, she only has habits - and she could change those tomorrow".)<br /><br />Another stray thought - I read somewhere (probably a pamphlet) that certain words appear in the language in anathemata (grammer) of people's opponents long before they're adopted as positive descriptions. "Atheist" was one: at the time Marlowe was being denounced as an atheist, there were no atheists and nobody really knew what it would be like to be an atheist. (Bloke said. In pamphlet.) "Anarchist" started life similarly, and then "nihilist" - although that one never really took off like the other two.<br /><br />Either way, I'm afraid Gray is all wet.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-77297974344931405412019-05-15T01:34:21.668-07:002019-05-15T01:34:21.668-07:00Yes, Burgess talks about this in his Dead Man in D...Yes, Burgess talks about this in his <em>Dead Man in Deptford</em>, which is certainly worth reading if you haven't. Of course, I would say that, wouldn't I.Adam Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15803399373213872690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-53535125602439472972019-05-14T13:34:20.249-07:002019-05-14T13:34:20.249-07:00This is utterly random, but just before Christophe...This is utterly random, but just before Christopher Marlowe was murdered he was being investigated by the Privy Council on charges of atheism and blasphemy, and I always remember one of the claims that the informer Richard Baines made about Marlowe: “He affirmeth that Moses was but a juggler, and that one Hariot being Sir Walter Raleigh's man can do more than he.” Alan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777218862490842180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-22441758044555684682019-05-14T10:07:01.985-07:002019-05-14T10:07:01.985-07:00Well, I count that as a good day's work. Time ...Well, I count that as a good day's work. Time for a nap. Alan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777218862490842180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-37261921428322989522019-05-14T08:42:03.750-07:002019-05-14T08:42:03.750-07:00Alan, thank you! You have answered my question, ba...Alan, thank you! You have answered my question, backed-up Gray's assertion and done the work I should have done. Maybe I should find myself a copy of <em>The Cambridge Companion to Atheism</em>.Adam Robertshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15803399373213872690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-14346663453823618292019-05-14T07:26:32.009-07:002019-05-14T07:26:32.009-07:00I just learned from revisiting Bremmer that Julian...I just learned from revisiting Bremmer that Julian the Apostate not only accused Christians of atheism but claimed that they inherited their atheism from the Jews. Alan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777218862490842180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-58677473040650051032019-05-14T07:24:26.042-07:002019-05-14T07:24:26.042-07:00Also, Jan Bremmer's essay on "Atheism in ...Also, Jan Bremmer's essay on "Atheism in Antiquity" in <em>The Cambridge Companion to Atheism</em> has some interesting material on who got designated as atheist in the ancient world. Alan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777218862490842180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5401830411147364284.post-18825281960037164892019-05-14T07:21:17.979-07:002019-05-14T07:21:17.979-07:00As far as I know, we only have Christian sources f...As far as I know, we only have Christian sources for this, but in the <em>Martyrdom of Polycarp</em> the crowd cries out for Polycarp to be killed because he is an atheist. And Justin Martyr, in his first <em>Aopology</em>, devotes some considerable space to refuting the charge that Christians are atheists. "Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God, the Father of righteousness and temperance and the other virtues, who is free from all impurity." Alan Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777218862490842180noreply@blogger.com